tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post4461854681406923273..comments2023-10-18T05:31:21.249-07:00Comments on Peregrinations: Electron:Proton RatioRick Gerhardthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10478878021692544533noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post-38484877138817200722007-03-20T08:39:00.000-07:002007-03-20T08:39:00.000-07:00I'm saying that you won't naturally infer a deity ...I'm saying that you won't naturally infer a deity from the evidence without having a preconceived idea that this is what the evidence is pointing toward, because it isn't the most natural conclusion if you don't already harbor this idea.<BR/><BR/><I>And I can't even imagine how one could argue that something (like human beings) are a necessary product of a universe...</I><BR/><BR/>Really?<BR/><BR/>http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2004/09/30/2003204990islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post-32796942847311776942007-03-19T17:11:00.000-07:002007-03-19T17:11:00.000-07:00Island:I'm not sure I'm following what you're tryi...Island:<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I'm following what you're trying to say, but...<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that no amount of evidence can force anyone to any conclusions. Science certainly doesn't work that way. A conclusion is far more often arrived at as an inference to the best explanation (of the sum of the evidence). I merely am pointing out that many scientists studying the physical laws and constants of the universe have--often in direct contradiction to their own presuppositions--ended by concluding that there is a Designer, a Supreme Intelligence behind these laws. So I used "forced" to mean "compelled by the weight of reason."<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure whether you are suggesting that we (human beings) are necessary given the make-up of the universe. While there have been those who have argued that the universe itself is necesssary, the consensus position is that it is instead contingent. (This is especially true with the discovery that it had a beginning.) And I can't even imagine how one could argue that something (like human beings) are a necessary product of a universe that is itself contingent.Rick Gerhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10478878021692544533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post-10374436450078664052007-03-19T07:51:00.000-07:002007-03-19T07:51:00.000-07:00As I indicated, evidence that we're not here by ac...As I indicated, evidence that we're not here by accident can't "force" anyone to such a conclusion without preconceived predispositioning toward theism, because the first most likely reason for it will be that we are simply *needed into existence* by the physical process of our universe.<BR/><BR/>You already have your belief, and so you search for vindication, but there is nothing that forces this conclusion without such a pre-existing idea.<BR/><BR/>To each his own, I guess.islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post-14030880630443037912007-03-19T06:52:00.000-07:002007-03-19T06:52:00.000-07:00Hi, Island! Thanks for reading.I share the anthro...Hi, Island! Thanks for reading.<BR/><BR/>I share the anthropic principle with my readers because (as you suggest) it comports nicely with the worldview to which I have come independently. As for the physicists, astronomers, and chemists whose research has culminated in the anthropic principle, most of them were reluctant (but forced by the strength of the evidence) to come to such a theistic conclusion.Rick Gerhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10478878021692544533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6410615559824660051.post-27000908432572700912007-03-19T02:13:00.000-07:002007-03-19T02:13:00.000-07:00In the last post, I began to talk about the anthro...<I>In the last post, I began to talk about the anthropic principle, the recognition on the part of astronomers, physicists, and chemists that the universe is made with intelligent life as its goal.</I><BR/><BR/>More likely as a practical means to an end, but you make your leaps of faith where ever you feel the need to read-in your preconceived belief-system.islandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774086177497447408noreply@blogger.com